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Yui
Mozilla Addict
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 53
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 Posted: Fri 14th Feb 2003 2:38pm 3 sites?
How many sites are out there spreading FUD about Mozilla? (FUD is such a funny acronym.) All I have heard of is three. It is not like Mozilla has any real FUD contenders. The Safari group or Microsoft hasn't joined the array. Why should they? Microsoft doesn't seem to care. (I wouldn't if I were them.) Safari is not a Windows program so it wouldn't get much press if the safari group commented. That leaves the little guys who are misinformed. What's the big deal?
I could see back in the M14 days that a little FUD or Fudge would go a long way, but now I wouldn't think anyone is interested in the candy except Mozilla fans. Mangelo probably gets more hits rom Mozilla fans then from any other category. To me Mozilla.org has no real opposition on the web. Are there any takers to find some? Find some and you get a free 1.3 Beta download. How's that? I am joking. 1.3 Beta download is free. (Now if it would only install.)
- Yui
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www.andkon.com
Troll
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 21
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Posted: Sat 15th Feb 2003 1:45pm
Well there is always http://www.dumbass.com/stuf/mozillapics/ and the current article http://www.dumbass.com/stuf/mozilla3/
There is a hilarious site though, http://home.earthlink.net/~mozblubber2/index2.html
I don't think my essays can compete with "The Ball of Thunder That Echoes Like A Stale Fart" or "That is the line that represents the entire sum of the pig vomit that viscously flows from Mozilla.org." This guy is truly splendid.
Little guys who are misinformed? I'd love for you to quote a single error you deem in my essay before sprouting such grandiose conclusions. In fact, let me take my generous offer and extend it to the mozblubber site. While I am not associated with it, I can testify to the slowness and crashes Mozilla produces.
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Yui
Mozilla Addict
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 53
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Posted: Wed 19th Feb 2003 9:20pm Ah hah, found you.
Nice to see you Andakon! Now Mozilla does crash a whole lot more often then IE, but it is also quite a bit faster on my Windows 98 PC. The make or break point with IE is that Microsoft has been lax at adding new features. I guess, now that they have illegally stole most of the market share away from Netscape they feel on top of it all. Its all too bad that there secret anti-Java/anti-Sun plan is not working.
In the end they will admit that well managed open source projects beat every offering they have. The clock is ticking for Microsoft. Soon it will be losing money to open source software like Linux once usablity improves. Mozilla may be another Linux for the Microsoft Corp.
I haven't taken a peek at your awesome Mozilla bashing site yet, but I will. To be trully damaging you must offer only the cons and no pros like a true fortune 100 business talking about a competitor. I hope you have done that. Then it will be a true war of words between everyone. After all, if you reveal to your audience the benefits of Mozilla your viewers will vanish entirely.
I don't want to insult you. I am just poking fun with the terms called propaganda and bias. You aren't biased are you?
Back in the days of M14 I thought Mozilla would never lift up off the ground. Now it's flying well enough to attract more than 80% popularity on download.com but it is somewhat unstable. It wasn't untill 1.0 that I've started using it all the time. It has many years to go, but someday it may just beat old, money bag, Microsoft. Now I do think Microsoft is an excellent money making business because of all its devious tactics, but they sure do need tips on how to design a bloated browser. Makes me wonder . . . maybe they don't even care about the user? Nah . . .
If they open sourced IE they may actually be able to save money and offer features similar to Mozilla. One of their open source advocates, and they did have one, complained of their biased, slanted views towards open source. If they continue it may someday do them in. Then surely everyone will be complaining about IE and you will have virutually no readership. You may complain about buggy Mozilla for quite a while, but if Microsoft doesn't open source IE your next site maybe on IE.
- Yui
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Yui
Mozilla Addict
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 53
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Posted: Wed 19th Feb 2003 9:54pm Interesting Points
1. I am all for the communist logos getting deleted, if your site redirect is true. Someone should file a bug on this for the sake of evangelism. Stranger things have happened to well managed organizations. I don't think the banners represent everyone.
2. Your tie between AOLTW and Mozilla is interesting. I, though, see a benefit between companies and open source projects. From what I hear Netscape funds Mozilla so I don't think it can ever break away so that point is moot. Since work in Mozilla is voluntary I see no scandal of any sorts. I think if the coders want to make money they wouldn't be working for AOLTW for free.
I can say, even with their faults, open source projects and particularly mozilla.org are a useful benefit to modern society. It makes even monopoloys like Microsoft more on the edge of their seat. Microsoft may even lower its prices because of Linux. Software is pricey and competion benefits the consumer. If Mozilla killed its stability and standards compliance bugs it would far surpass Microsoft IE. It already has more features.
Some people view criticism as abnoxious, but as an old proverb says: "A fool doesn't welcome criticism."
- Yui
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www.andkon.com
Troll
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 21
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Posted: Fri 21st Feb 2003 9:23am Re: Ah hah, found you.
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Nice to see you Andakon! Now Mozilla does crash a whole lot more often then IE, but it is also quite a bit faster on my Windows 98 PC. The make or break point with IE is that Microsoft has been lax at adding new features. I guess, now that they have illegally stole most of the market share away from Netscape they feel on top of it all. Its all too bad that there secret anti-Java/anti-Sun plan is not working.
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Since when is it that if I dont love Mozilla, I get grouped with IE? Opera kicks the ass of both in speed, look, and customizability. I don't see why you have to berate Microsoft and then turn around to protect AOLTW. They are both in the same system of capitalism, with the same goal of having a monopoly. MS is simply for whatever reason ahead. AOLTW wouldnt hesitate for a second, if it could, to be in the same position as MS.
And illegal market share? The last time I checked, the only alternative to IE 4 was NN 4.x. The only alternative to IE 5 was NN 4.x. The way I look at it, Netscape failed to innovate so a better browser came along. IE was better than NN. The fact that IE is available on desktops only speeded up the inevitable.
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In the end they will admit that well managed open source projects beat every offering they have. The clock is ticking for Microsoft. Soon it will be losing money to open source software like Linux once usablity improves. Mozilla may be another Linux for the Microsoft Corp.
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Are you serious or just day dreaming for a second? Let's be real: after 5 years, the only thing Mozilla was capable of doing was making a standards compliant browser, tabbed browsing, and popup suppression. WOW. Opera, a company of about 100 (yes one HUNDRED), did this in how many years? Oh wait, singular, one year! (There is no need for popup suppression if you have excellent tabbed browsing, unlike Mozilla, BTW)
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I haven't taken a peek at your awesome Mozilla bashing site yet, but I will. To be trully damaging you must offer only the cons and no pros like a true fortune 100 business talking about a competitor. I hope you have done that. Then it will be a true war of words between everyone. After all, if you reveal to your audience the benefits of Mozilla your viewers will vanish entirely.
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THE BENEFITS? I am laughing my ass off. Tabbed browsing? Compliance? Download Opera! (Maybe you need to also read my Opera essay as well.) It's faster, better looking, and easier to use. Remember, Mozilla is not for end users (TM), so Netscape is the sole end product most people will use. Netscape is bloated, too big to download (remember, most people still have 56K), and overloaded with shit that doesnt need to be.
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I don't want to insult you. I am just poking fun with the terms called propaganda and bias. You aren't biased are you?
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Everyone is biased. It's called opinions. I am biased because I dont like the inefficient Mozilla and fraud AOLTW. You are biased because you somehow think rooting for AOLTW over MS is somehow any better. Opera, thank God, gives a very good oppurtunity to support a truly innovative company. Sure, they arent "open source," but their browser is much better than anything out there.
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Back in the days of M14 I thought Mozilla would never lift up off the ground. Now it's flying well enough to attract more than 80% popularity on download.com but it is somewhat unstable. It wasn't untill 1.0 that I've started using it all the time. It has many years to go, but someday it may just beat old, money bag, Microsoft. Now I do think Microsoft is an excellent money making business because of all its devious tactics, but they sure do need tips on how to design a bloated browser. Makes me wonder . . . maybe they don't even care about the user? Nah . . .
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Remember now, it wont be Mozilla beating MS. It will be Netscape and AOLTW, money-bags in their own right, beating money-bag MS. Will that really be any better? Also take into consideration that Mozilla is not for end users (TM), so the crappy Netscape or future AOL browser will be the replacement. Thank God for Opera!
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If they open sourced IE they may actually be able to save money and offer features similar to Mozilla. One of their open source advocates, and they did have one, complained of their biased, slanted views towards open source. If they continue it may someday do them in. Then surely everyone will be complaining about IE and you will have virutually no readership. You may complain about buggy Mozilla for quite a while, but if Microsoft doesn't open source IE your next site maybe on IE.
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Open source is only good if the "community" has input. Mozilla.org has shown that is is merely a proofreading club for Netscape. Remember, just because I hate Mozilla doesnt make me love IE.
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www.andkon.com
Troll
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 21
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Posted: Fri 21st Feb 2003 9:29am Re: Interesting Points
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1. I am all for the communist logos getting deleted, if your site redirect is true. Someone should file a bug on this for the sake of evangelism. Stranger things have happened to well managed organizations. I don't think the banners represent everyone.
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Bug filing will do nothing. Netscape is in charge and nothing is better than making Mozilla look like a community effort (under the misunderstood communist imagery). People have been complaining about it way before me (a good two years before I came along) with no change.
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2. Your tie between AOLTW and Mozilla is interesting. I, though, see a benefit between companies and open source projects. From what I hear Netscape funds Mozilla so I don't think it can ever break away so that point is moot. Since work in Mozilla is voluntary I see no scandal of any sorts. I think if the coders want to make money they wouldn't be working for AOLTW for free.
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But if Netscape funds Mozilla.org/Mozilla, which yes of course it does, how can Mozilla.org be true to the goals of the community versus the goals of the corporation? The goals of any corporation obviously is to make profit, as much as possible. These seem to run 180 degrees counter to the goals of community at large.
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I can say, even with their faults, open source projects and particularly mozilla.org are a useful benefit to modern society. It makes even monopoloys like Microsoft more on the edge of their seat. Microsoft may even lower its prices because of Linux. Software is pricey and competion benefits the consumer. If Mozilla killed its stability and standards compliance bugs it would far surpass Microsoft IE. It already has more features.
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If software costs too damn much, I say download it off of Kazaa or ask a buddy to burn it. Read the my Filesharing ramble. Ever tried Opera?
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Some people view criticism as abnoxious, but as an old proverb says: "A fool doesn't welcome criticism."
- Yui
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Well said.
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moronicbajebus
Mozilla Aficionado
Joined: 08 Nov 2002
Posts: 264
Location: Maryland, USA
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Posted: Fri 21st Feb 2003 1:54pm
So IMB owns Linux because they host the linux kernel tracking site, your local church owns Alcohol Anonymousness because AA has meetings there, and I own .00000000001 of the Girl Scouts because I bought a box of cookies.
_________________
Don't ba jebus the moronic.
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www.andkon.com
Troll
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 21
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Posted: Fri 21st Feb 2003 7:52pm
| moronicbajebus wrote: |
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So IMB owns Linux because they host the linux kernel tracking site, your local church owns Alcohol Anonymousness because AA has meetings there, and I own .00000000001 of the Girl Scouts because I bought a box of cookies.
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Ownership can be defined as power to influence. If your purchase of a box of Girl Scout cookies exerts no influence over the Girl Scouts, you have no ownership of the Girl Scouts. If Linux's power is overbearing, then it exerts ownership.
The problem with AOLTW's dominance over Mozilla is quite simple. The community suffers because what is good for a corporation isnt always good for the community. The goals of the two are sometimes diametrically opposite.
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willll
Mozilla Aficionado
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 474
Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Sat 22nd Feb 2003 8:35am
To each his own. People hava choice about what browser to use. dumbass can use opera and I can use Mozilla or Phoenix. I would prefer it if more people used Mozilla, but I am so tired of this pointless bickering which will accomplish absolutely NOTHING.
_________________
killing is bad
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Yui
Mozilla Addict
Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 53
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Posted: Mon 24th Feb 2003 7:01pm Find a totally free Opera and I'll switch.
The pros and cons of Mozilla over Opera are quite old. Last I heard, Opera was still adware in the "free" version. Hence, Opera is not free in any way.
The ads pay for it. So, Opera cannot compete in the same category as a free browser because it is not free. If it was a free browser it would be in the free browser category and compete with the free browsers. Since it is not free it cannot compete.
Now which is the better FREE browser? Answer: Mozilla.
Any questions?
- Yui
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www.andkon.com
Troll
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 21
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Posted: Sat 1st Mar 2003 4:25pm Re: Find a totally free Opera and I'll switch.
| Yui wrote: |
The pros and cons of Mozilla over Opera are quite old. Last I heard, Opera was still adware in the "free" version. Hence, Opera is not free in any way.
The ads pay for it. So, Opera cannot compete in the same category as a free browser because it is not free. If it was a free browser it would be in the free browser category and compete with the free browsers. Since it is not free it cannot compete.
Now which is the better FREE browser? Answer: Mozilla.
Any questions?
- Yui
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What is this BULLSHIT argument? Your "non-professional/Olympic-style" argument is truly whining. Which is better? A free Opera (yes with ads) versus a free Mozilla? The answer even with the inconvience of an ad is Opera. Faster, doesnt crash (maybe twice or thrice only HUGE Flash sites), and better looking.
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marc00s
Mozilla Addict
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 84
Location: Opole, Poland
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Posted: Sat 1st Mar 2003 4:59pm
You tell me that adware is free?
How old are you? 
_________________
marcoos :: http://polmoz.mozdev.org/start/1.0/ :: http://sidebar.marcoos.org/
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willll
Mozilla Aficionado
Joined: 30 Nov 2002
Posts: 474
Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Sat 1st Mar 2003 5:01pm
| marc00s wrote: |
You tell me that adware is free?
How old are you? :D
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You think that responding to him is actually going to do something?
How old are you? Do you like getting into pointless arguments?
_________________
killing is bad
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marc00s
Mozilla Addict
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 84
Location: Opole, Poland
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Posted: Sat 1st Mar 2003 5:03pm
willl:
You're right. I shouldn't have answered this guy. 
Probably nobody should have...
_________________
marcoos :: http://polmoz.mozdev.org/start/1.0/ :: http://sidebar.marcoos.org/
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www.andkon.com
Troll
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 21
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Posted: Sat 1st Mar 2003 8:20pm
| marc00s wrote: |
You tell me that adware is free?
How old are you?
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Yes. I can download it. It has all the same exact features but there is an ad in the corner. Stop playing with the words and face the music. Namely, Mozilla has less features than Opera. Namely, Mozilla/Netscape/etc are less user friendly than Opera.
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