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MozSaysAloha
Mozilla Addict
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Norfolk, Virginia USA
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 Posted: Thu 13th Feb 2003 6:32pm dumbass's up to it again...
In the old MZ forums, a member brought up a site (dumbass.com). He's back with new and interesting pieces of FUD:
http://www.dumbass.com/stuf/index.html
I seriously think mozilla.org should sue dumbass and mangelo...
_________________
"Just get me elected, and I'll give you your damn war." -Lyndon B. Johnson
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fondacio
Mozilla Fanatic
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 33
Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Fri 14th Feb 2003 1:37am Re: dumbass's up to it again...
| MozSaysAloha wrote: |
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I seriously think mozilla.org should sue dumbass and mangelo...
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Sure. Take them seriously. It's not like they don't take themselves too seriously already.
Come on now , show a little tolerance for the ignorant. After all, many ignorant people roam these forums as well, but some of them are at the opposite end as die-hard Mozilla zealots who make nonsensical statements about Microsoft, Opera or Safari. I'm sure you wouldn't mind if they would start their own sites.
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fingerprint
Mozilla Aficionado
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 165
Location: Varna, Bulgaria
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Posted: Fri 14th Feb 2003 1:43am
Agreed, someone can rant for days about MS and they are cool and trendy. Someone dares to utter a bad word about the Mozilla project and they should be crucified. Some people have better results with other browsers and like them better. That's what makes the world great, individuality.
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pcasseau2
Mozilla Fan
Joined: 27 Nov 2002
Posts: 9
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Posted: Fri 14th Feb 2003 4:51am
| fingerprint wrote: |
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Someone dares to utter a bad word about the Mozilla project and they should be crucified. Some people have better results with other browsers and like them better..
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Well, what mangelo does is definitely not covered by those sentences. He distributes pure misinformation. I even had a conversations with him and asked for reasons, explained the backgrounds, but his articles did still state what I proved him wrong.
dumbass seems to be different:
| dumbass's article before the current one wrote: |
A lot things have happened since my last major anti-Mozilla effort/essay in July. I can without a doubt say that I was quite wrong in a quite a lot of areas.
[...]
From this stabbing thru the pitch dark, most of my ideas have been discarded and proved wrong.
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Mangelo would never admit that he was mostly wrong.
dumbass may have some strange ideas, some OTOH are not so strange IMO. At least in his two articles about Mozilla in 2003. (The older ones have much nonsense, but he admitted it himself).
He does not like AOL, not at all, but he seems not to dislike Mozilla very much - only its ties to AOL.
Actually I did not find a really bad word about the Mozilla application in those two articles other than about the "communist" logo.
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The truth about MozillaQuest:
http://mozillaquest.jeeran.com/
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fondacio
Mozilla Fanatic
Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Posts: 33
Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Fri 14th Feb 2003 5:47am
| pcasseau2 wrote: |
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Well, what mangelo does is definitely not covered by those sentences. He distributes pure misinformation. I even had a conversations with him and asked for reasons, explained the backgrounds, but his articles did still state what I proved him wrong. (...) Mangelo would never admit that he was mostly wrong.
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Which establishes him as a meathead. I also have the impression that he's a guy in his 30s or 40s who is oblivious to his own incompetence and mediocrity and tries to be a serious web journalist. That's the democratic nature of the internet for you: anyone with an opinion and basic knowledge about how to put up a website can put his or her rants online. I'm bothered more by the presence of neo-nazi and other hate sites. They do more damage. But I'm not sure if that means you should take them down.
What pcasseau2 is doing, posting rebuttals and pointing out misinformation on MQ, is the proper way to respond, although personally I don't think he's worth your time and efforts.
| pcasseau2 wrote: |
dumbass seems to be different (...). [He] may have some strange ideas, some OTOH are not so strange IMO. At least in his two articles about Mozilla in 2003. (The older ones have much nonsense, but he admitted it himself).
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dumbass just seems like a misguided adolescent, but one who's learning. If he's not afraid to learn from his mistakes, he'll grow up and become more sensible. I don't mean to patronise other teens on these forums (there are probably more of them than you'd expect), but some people are just like that when they're teenagers.
| pcasseau2 wrote: |
He does not like AOL, not at all, but he seems not to dislike Mozilla very much - only its ties to AOL.
Actually I did not find a really bad word about the Mozilla application in those two articles other than about the "communist" logo.
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Well, he is trumpeting Opera on his website now, so I guess he's not fallen in love with Mozilla yet. And he bashes mozdev.org, not realising that those independent projects don't get any money from AOL.
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www.andkon.com
Troll
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 21
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Posted: Fri 14th Feb 2003 11:45am "I seriously think mozilla.org should sue dumbass...&quo
"I seriously think mozilla.org should sue dumbass..."
For what??? Disagreeing with me? Freedom is speech also applies to those who disagree with the majority, not just to those who parrot the same ideas over and over again. Or is this a tactic to try to shit my pants and take off my site?
So you either are an intolerant person who wants people sued if they disagree with you or you are an obnoxious person who threathens idly to try to scare people? How nice of you, either way.
http://www.dumbass.com/stuf/mozilla3/ will continue to be online
http://www.dumbass.com/stuf/mozillapics/ will also continue to be online
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MozSaysAloha
Mozilla Addict
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Norfolk, Virginia USA
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Posted: Fri 14th Feb 2003 1:23pm
Ouch!
It looks like I was a bit off base--by a mile.
Voltaire once said: "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it."
In these times, I believe in that quote more and more. If we have the freedom to praise, love, and evangelize Mozilla, should dumbass and mangelo have the right to bring it down? I think so.
Free speech is a sword that cuts both ways.
_________________
"Just get me elected, and I'll give you your damn war." -Lyndon B. Johnson
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Sander
Mozilla Aficionado
Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 257
Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Fri 14th Feb 2003 2:16pm Re: dumbass's up to it again...
| MozSaysAloha wrote: |
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I seriously think mozilla.org should sue dumbass and mangelo...
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I think we should borkify their pages... ^_^
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Shark Daddy
Mozilla Addict
Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 72
Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Fri 14th Feb 2003 10:33pm Re:"I seriously think mozilla.org should sue dumbass...&
| www.dumbass.com wrote: |
"I seriously think mozilla.org should sue dumbass..."
For what??? Disagreeing with me? Freedom is speech also applies to those who disagree with the majority, not just to those who parrot the same ideas over and over again. Or is this a tactic to try to shit my pants and take off my site?
So you either are an intolerant person who wants people sued if they disagree with you or you are an obnoxious person who threathens idly to try to scare people? How nice of you, either way.
http://www.dumbass.com/stuf/mozilla3/ will continue to be online
http://www.dumbass.com/stuf/mozillapics/ will also continue to be online
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Dude, we're not trying to shut you down, and I'm not trying to knock you. Seriously.
But you're making me shit my pants just thinking about how much you believe you know about systems of law, structure, and government. You've made communist references about Mozilla (which are clearly wrong and ruin your credibility to anyone who looks at the facts; for example, there's a system called Bugzilla, which you'd have known about more than in passing if you'd researched it, that gives everyone their say and the ability to vote, yet the mozilla.org engineers get the final say), and you also made a freedom of speech comment just now. Your journalism on this subject is pretty poor, which isn't really your fault (Just look at Rex Baldazo of C|Net), but you wrote something that dissed the work of a number of normal people without any commercial concerns. I can understand dissing a company product like Windows or Navigator, but you just took a shot at something that is made by the public, for the public.
For the public, oh no!! That sounded pretty communist to me, people working together for each other and the greater good. The mozilla.org banner is a red star... oh no!! They must all be raving Stalin-loving lunatics. I'm going to report you to the government; you must be working for the West. I also have more news for you. Communism does not mean its subjects all commit evil acts on others, while oppressing their own, and blindly saluting their dictator (presumably you think that's AOLTW, which really owns and runs mozilla.org behind the scenes like Big Brother and has us little workers doing slavery for Netscape 7 without even knowing it). It happened to have been that way in Eastern Europe, but communism, in theory, is a pretty cool idea. And by the way, it's a system of economics and not so much government... you're sort of incorrectly using the term. Ignore your frame of reference.
You're also not raising any stirring controversy either anyway, which you seem to think you're doing, and get a kick out of. Now, that's not to say you don't raise some interesting points. The artwork may or may not have been inspired by something from the USSR. I don't care. Get over it; it looks cool. Yes, Netscape (legally the initial developer) gets some rights that it maybe shouldn't normally have, but to their credit, they have put a lot of faith into the Mozilla project and did contribute the entire initial source. They pay people to work on Mozilla. Not only does Netscape deserve these privileges, but you seem to be picking up on legal escape clauses in the licenses. This is just anti-liability red tape, and means nothing.
Anyway, whatever. Keep writing; it's good that you're at least trying to substantiate your bias with facts, but pick your fights carefully. Much of the facts you present can be interpreted either way. I happen to think you're wrong about a lot of things, but hey, I'm just a Mozilla-loving commie.
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The Chosen One has spoken (you may resume your disorder).
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www.andkon.com
Troll
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 21
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Posted: Sat 15th Feb 2003 9:59am Re:"I seriously think mozilla.org should sue dumbass...&
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Dude, we're not trying to shut you down, and I'm not trying to knock you. Seriously.
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That's not what someone would gather from the first poster.
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But you're making me shit my pants just thinking about how much you believe you know about systems of law, structure, and government. You've made communist references about Mozilla (which are clearly wrong and ruin your credibility to anyone who looks at
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CLEARLY WRONG? Have you even read my essay? Perhaps try quoting a few sentences that you deem to be incorrect rather than hurling unproven generalized statements which then mean nothing.
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the facts; for example, there's a system called Bugzilla, which you'd have known about more than in passing if you'd researched it, that gives everyone their say and the ability to vote, yet the mozilla.org engineers get the final say), and you also made a freedom of speech
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"final say" is with the Netscape employees? Gee how democratic. Perhaps just as democratic as the courts of Henry VIII and Elizabeth I? Bugzilla isnt for changing logos, its for BUGS.
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comment just now. Your journalism on this subject is pretty poor, which isn't really your fault (Just look at Rex Baldazo of C|Net),
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Would you actually care to comment on a single sentence before such unfounded and grandiose conclusions?
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but you wrote something that dissed the work of a number of normal people without any commercial concerns. I can understand dissing a company product like Windows or Navigator, but you just took a shot at something that is made by the public, for the public.
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That's where you get YOUR facts wrong. According to a Netscape employee, volutneers only account for 15% of the Mozilla effort. Don't try to pull this "public" bullshit on me. And what great end user product the "public" has, Netscape. It's not BLOATED, not filled with ADS, and is soooo user friendly! Never crashes! LOL
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For the public, oh no!! That sounded pretty communist to me, people working together for each other and the greater good. The
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Okay, let's get things straight. Just because I hate communism, doesnt mean i'm not a community builder. Communism never was and never is working for the public good. On the other hand, Mozilla does largely benefit a corporation. How great Mozilla is, communist imagery, capitalistic goals. WOW. Fooled you.
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mozilla.org banner is a red star... oh no!! They must all be raving Stalin-loving lunatics. I'm going to report you to the
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You are a moron. Let me quote myself from my essay: "The clear cut communist references to these are overt: the red color, red star, factories, and the hero-workers saluting. It is not the individual elements that comprise the communist imagery, it is all the elements combined. In other words, a star by itself does not speak of communism. In fact, the well-known communist star was reputed to have been stolen from the American icon. Factories do not speak of communism. Neither does the color red speak of communism. However, when fused together, these three elements do become a clear representation of communism. After all, it is this same type of kitsch artwork that was used during Stalin's regime. I can only guess as to the reasons why Mozilla chooses to have this artwork. However, I am absolutely certain that using communism, the longest-reigning icon of tyranny and oppression in the 20th century (and continuing strong into the 21st), as symbolic of some other "higher" meaning is morally irresponsible and foremost historically incorrect."
Now, please read the essay before making such ignorant comments.
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government; you must be working for the West. I also have more news for you. Communism does not mean its subjects all commit evil acts on others, while oppressing their own, and blindly saluting their dictator (presumably you think that's AOLTW, which really owns and runs mozilla.org behind the scenes like Big Brother and has us little workers doing slavery for Netscape 7 without even knowing it). It happened to have been that way in Eastern Europe, but communism, in theory, is a pretty cool idea. And by the way, it's a system of economics and not so much government... you're sort of incorrectly using the term. Ignore your frame of reference.
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God, people like you are misinformed. Communism isnt a pretty "cool" idea. It spreads thru fear and revolution, read the Communist Manifesto. It abolishes religion, read Capital. By this disestablishment, you are suppressing free speech. Still a cool idea? Communism is a system of goverment and economics, but sure, self-serving oligarchy is official goverment of a economic communism.
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You're also not raising any stirring controversy either anyway, which you seem to think you're doing, and get a kick out of. Now, that's not to say you don't raise some interesting points. The artwork may or may not have been inspired by something from the USSR. I don't care. Get over it; it looks cool. Yes, Netscape (legally the initial developer) gets some rights that it maybe shouldn't normally have, but to their credit, they have put a lot of faith into the Mozilla project and did contribute the entire initial source. They pay people to work on Mozilla. Not only does Netscape deserve these privileges, but you seem to be picking up on legal escape clauses in the licenses. This is just anti-liability red tape, and means nothing.
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First, only 15% of Mozilla is made up of volunteers.
Oh yes. It's really cool to look at artwork that imprisoned people and killed 100 million people. Good job, comrade Stalin.
Sieg Heil! Heil Hitler! Is that cool too? I mean hell, the swastika is twistier and so much cooler than a lame star!
The anit-liabilty makes Netscape not liable to have to release ANY source code, which the Mozilla license clearly states that you have to. Netscape hasnt released any code that it should. GEE? I wonder why...
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Anyway, whatever. Keep writing; it's good that you're at least trying to substantiate your bias with facts, but pick your fights carefully. Much of the facts you present can be interpreted either way. I happen to think you're wrong about a lot of things, but hey, I'm just a Mozilla-loving commie.
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Please try reading my article BEFORE making anymore stupid, ignorant comments.
And calling yourself a communist might be cool, but it's sickening as hell. Read the account of a Moscuvite who lived in Russia under communism: http://www.podval.org/~sds/commies.html
Communism is soo cool, huh? Hell under that pretense, Nazism is cool too. I mean the "accidental" murder of Jews was just a side thing...
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tve
Mozilla Devotee
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 633
Location: Federal Republic of Germany
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Posted: Sat 15th Feb 2003 10:23am
some people really need to get out more...
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Sander
Mozilla Aficionado
Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 257
Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Sat 15th Feb 2003 12:05pm
Godwin's law is now in effect.
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www.andkon.com
Troll
Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 21
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Posted: Sat 15th Feb 2003 1:55pm
| Sander wrote: |
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Godwin's law is now in effect.
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Gee, let's see here now... Communism and Nazism cannot be discussed without the other at most times. But don't worry, I'll allow you this time to cower under the veil of Godwin's Law since your arguments are running quite dry. It's a shame to win an argument on a completely arbitrary thing, that is completely misunderstood (Godwin's "law" simply states as longer the discussion gets the more likely nazis will be discussed.) However, I won't allow you to make grandiose statements without actually proving them though.
Examples of inept conclusions: [Although I haven't read a line from your essay dumbass, I can arrogantly conclude that] you are one of the most misguided people I have ever seen. How can you be against community? We are making a browser and you are against that? Wait, you arent... Well, I mean sure, Netscape does seem a little overbearing and perhaps forceful, but it's not like they are part of a corporation that has committed the same type of atrocities let's say Microsoft has. Oh what? AOLTW has? Well they are not nearly as bad. What? Break free? Of course Mozilla.org can't be independent. Wait, you are twisting my words, Mozilla.org IS independent. Sure, we can't do anything, but we have votes and stuff, which could be vetoed by Their Majesties, The Netscape Guardians at Mozilla.org.
And then usually when that is uttered, people slam the door behind them, fleeing a lost argument. I don't see why people can't learn a bit more and have to hissy fit so much.
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tve
Mozilla Devotee
Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 633
Location: Federal Republic of Germany
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Posted: Sat 15th Feb 2003 2:18pm
| two legged freak wrote: |
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some people really need to get out more...
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indeed^^
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kerz
MozillaZine Admin
Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 100
Location: Mountain View, CA
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Posted: Sat 15th Feb 2003 3:55pm
Please to be not wasting my bandwidth with your drivel.
Have a nice day.
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