I didn't want to get into this post, because I feel that everyone has a right to his or her opinons, but after reading five pages of this, well, I think its about time I say something, even if small.
Now you all have to remember that this is still just a kid, and that he has not gone through the experiences of life,yet he may sound like he has seen and done everything, he has not, and that is what keeps him silent in my book.
Okay. So let's see. Who can argue for against war in Iraq (well its over, but who could have)? Those who have combat experience? Those who met Saddam? Those who ever lived in Iraq? Democracy implies points from everyone.
quote: He can only say, but is lacking in giving us reasons why through personal experiences, thus we all must take a step back, and just let it be.
Is he ignorant to certain things in life, Yes, and he will learn soon that if you can not back up your words by action, or selfworth, then your opinons are hollow.
So let me guess. Only veterans can argue for/against war? Only zookepers can decide whether or not to enlarge the zoo.
quote: So.. I leave by saying that for someone who feels that his opinon has great form and backing, he sure did put up a lot of defensive posts, and that you should never asume things about a persons character by what they own or have worked hard to obtain, yet you can say that this childs character is tainted with hatred and selfloathing, if he things that all H2 owners are well... you all know what he stated in his posts..
What is scary in my eyes, is the tremendous amount of anger that this young person has ... I hope that he only acts out his anger in words and nothing more ...
What's wrong with inherited wealth? It seems like evrybody is down on people who haven't "earned" their money. My great-great grandfather worked hard and so have all the subsequent generations in my family. We all grow up working in the factories and shipyards and get our hands into just about everything. Yeah we have everything financial taken care of for us, but I can still weld... Seriously though, there iks nothing wrong with inherited wealth. There is something wrong with arrogance and a sense of entitlement. Nobody is better than anybody else because of what they have and how they got it (unless it was illegal). It is one's actions that makes us who and what we are. Constantly criticising others makes you less of a person than somebody who is compassionate and respects everybody. That is my opinion.
Posts:
83 |
From:
Portland, OR |
Registered: 01-12-03
quote:Originally posted by Steve R: I've been to the lower-income neighborhoods...that's where you'll find the pimped-out H2's!
Here's some target-rich stuff. In my experience (real-world, hands-on, face-to-face)...I've not ignored these lower-income people but rather hired them. Perhaps I should say "tried to hire them": while there are some unfortunate situations and circumstances, the overwhelming majority of lower-income people (perhaps 90%) are poor because they almost choose to be.
Yes, what brilliant analysis. People see that being poor means being not fed in many cases. So why do they ALMOST CHOOSE it? And why almost?
Where did you get this amazing number?
quote: Again...not all, but the majority will fail to continue working once they have some money in their pockets. No matter how much I pay them, they're always broke the next week (having sqaundered their pay friviliously). Major money-management issues, careless spending and a "live for the moment, forget tomorrow" attitude widely prevails. I've seen it again and again in hundreds of employees.
How much do you give them, honestly? I don't see how one can spend $6 per hour frivolously unless you count sunstandard housing and food a luxury.
quote: Many of them simply don't want to work...the free ride is too easy and appealing. It's the "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink". The quickest way to get rid of these people is to simply give them an advance in their pay....goodbye!
Dude, what the $%^& are you talking about? You have proved yourself completely shallow. Free ride? You mean welfare of course. $300 a month is a free ride. I don't know what kind of ride that cant get you, perhaps a roller coaster ride as compared to the stable ride of the Hummer...
quote: The proverbial "poor guy down on his luck but more then willing to work if he got a break" rarely exists. That's who you want to think your helping. More often then not it's some jerk who partied his way through school, has no real interest in working, scarce job skills, blames others for much of his problems and would sooner spend his welfare money on a 6-pack of beer then feed his kids. They are parasites on society...
Partied his way thru school? You surely don't mean capitalist successes like George Bush and Andrew Fastow??? Welfare DOESNT give ANYONE enough to live on. It doesnt give enough even to live in substandard housing.
quote: I'm completely with BK on this call. I worked my butt off and strived to make of myself what I am today. I deeply resent when people try to figure I inherited money, won a lottery, had a lawsuit settlement or got a kick-down from big-daddy. Just when ya make something of yourself and others are envious...they start having to tear you down to account of their own insecurities.
That's the sad part. You kick people who you already assume are bums yet have absolutely no qualms about crooks like Fastow. Surely, it wasnt the President's education and his great intellect that got him into office.
quote: It's my money, I earned it and according to the laws of freedome & liberty it is my call as to how, when and where I spend it. It really is just that simple. I bought this thing because I love to offroad and camping with my family...that's it...it's not a statement, a compensation issue or anything more then just a vehicle. If I have to explain it, you'd likely not understand it.
Let me tell you about a company called Enron. It's very doubtful that anyone from this magical company will ever go to jail. Perhaps a few scapegoats. But even those who might go to jail, will keep millions. This is the same system you are promoting. It's sad that you are so disillusioned by your own hard work that the enemy is those who want to work and the friend is the corporate crooks who are at the top of this pyramid scheme.
quote: Btw...the H2 is not $120K, it's about $56K...which is less then about 5 other luxury SUV's and on the same level as the Escalade or Navigator. You may be attacking the wrong group?
My article, as in the pic, refers to the H1. I am attacking the "Hummer group" because it is reoccuring symptom within a large corrupt system.
quote: As for your "hard workers" who still can't put food on the table: that is outright ridiculous! Food is widely available, inexpensive and not costly. Maybe these poor unfortunate souls shouldn't spend their money on vehicles they can't afford, rent homes that are too expensive, eat out too often, wear fancy clothes and simply spend beyond their means.
Rent homes that are too expensive? Read Nickel and Dimed. Home prices are always too high. Try picking up an apartment guide, seriously. The crappiest apartments in the crappiest neighboorhoods will still cost you at least $100 per week.
quote: I have an employee who makes about $21K a year; he has an apartment that he shares, drives a nice '87 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 that is fixed up and lives quite well. On the other hand, I have another salesman who makes about $67K...he's always broke, his rented condo is overly costly, his leased vehicle is a rip-off, his high-spending lifestyle leaves him pretty much broke...
Can I email this 21K earner? Of course I cant. Let me tell you, no one on 21K is quite well off.
quote: ...and when he's too lazy to pay his ex-wife, what do you think he tells them...pretty much the same crap that your reading: that he's working but just...can't...make...enough.
I seem to disbelieve that ghettos are filled with people who make 67K... Stupid example, shows that someone can't handle a budget.
quote: It's not just what you make...it's also how you spend it. As illusrated above, I know poor folks that do quite well and I know wealthy people that are on the brink of bankruptcy.
They can't handle their money. Maybe they should downsize. Wealthy people by definition SHOULDNT be on the brink on bankruptcy. It is truly thei fault then. If you earn enough and still can manage, it's your fault.
quote: What are you suggesting? That we buy yugo's and give the money to "needy" people? Giving them free handouts is not the answer...offering them jobs is. Our buying these vehicles represents an increase in domestic spending...it represents demand for products and stimulates the economy. Do you think leaving funds in bank accounts helps create jobs?
As I said, the Hummer is a symptom of a far far greater problem. If you think this is true, then you dont need my help in figuring out what to do. But you dont, so no need for smartass rhetorical questions.
quote: Ya know what...I just don't have time for this: I have to schedule work for my crews tomorrow so THEY can put food on their table.
Aww, and you believe you are the one helping people.. You remind me of the guy in Nickel and Dimed who's the owner of a maid service. He makes about $50 per house while the three maids make about $20, total. How odd. (Not sure about the numbers, but it was something outrageous as that.)
quote: What I will say is that Andros will likely study political science in school, very likely will become a lawyer of sorts....and my guarantee is this: when he's 25 and reflects back on what he said and thinks today....he'll realize just how insideously wrong he was.
Andras, anyways. I will NEVER become a lawyer. For the most part, they are boring. At the worst, it's saving a crook from death or convicting an innocent guy to death. I don't feel that responsible. Please dont play detective or pschycologist unless you are pretty confident.
quote: You reap what you sow. I firmly believe and know from first hand experience that in America anyone with a will and interest in making for themselves a good lifestyle can do it. Those who fail will have excuses, those excuses you have read and believe.
I believe because I also see. How does your 21K employee manage to stay so well off? What secrets does he have? Tell him that he would make a fortune writing a book on it. But then again, why do that since he is so well off? Hehe...
quote:Originally posted by NCHummerman: What is scary in my eyes, is the tremendous amount of anger that this young person has ... I hope that he only acts out his anger in words and nothing more ...
The seemingly violentanger is mostly fluff. I do genuinly feel angry that no one sees that there are millions and millions of people who work and dont have enough to literally eat. I get angry by such childish responses like it is because it is. What kind of bullshit response is THAT?
quote:What I will say is that Andros will likely study political science in school, very likely will become a lawyer of sorts....and my guarantee is this: when he's 25 and reflects back on what he said and thinks today....he'll realize just how insideously wrong he was.
One more thing. I started my path to more leftist, though I would call it fair, ideas right after the 2000 election. I rooted for Bush the entire time, and even in Florida. Sadly, I realized how this "tax cut" thing is a sham. First, why give it to the rich in the first place? They dont NEED extra thousands while giving it to a lower income, yet still working, person would actually spend all the money. Someone who has barely enough to spend on housing, food, transportation will not put it in a bank account, which they might not even have. So actually for me, reverting to this "IT's MY money, I earned it" nonsense would be childish.
(Of course, that's not to say the Democrats are any better, of course not.)
The Hummer haters should move out of the country. Any fry cook at Mc D's who is over 30 or loser "earning" government assistance and thinks they are pick-on --just love to lash out at high-end vehicle owners. Luckily for them, if H2 owners didn't fit the tax backet that we do, there would be no financial aid, reduced-priced homes, and food stamps for them. They would be forced to work, instead of having time to bich and moan. My only comment: take your pathetic asses to college, or grow some 'nads, roll up your poor helpless tattered sleeves, and go to work. Anyone who makes any sort of living for themselves/their family notice how much dough is sucked from their income(taxes), which feeds the "less fortunate" (or do I mean less motivated?) would never dare complain about those who's determination and work ethic create a situation for themselves and can afford to drive whatever-the-hell they want??
The author of the Hummer haters thing is clearly a child who needed a good ass-whooping as a child-- but never got it-- and is only lacking in motivation to succeed; they are truely blessed with too much time on their hands to wimper and gripe.
get a frickin' life. But get a job first.
gasman
Posts:
122 |
From:
Monticello, IL, USA |
Registered: 02-17-03
Clearly, there are folks who truely need government assistance. If this were the case for all who receive help, I wouldn't mind my reaming(w/o KY) with every paycheck stub I get. I have no quams with helping out the less fortunate.
gasman
Posts:
122 |
From:
Monticello, IL, USA |
Registered: 02-17-03
quote:Originally posted by NCHummerman: What is scary in my eyes, is the tremendous amount of anger that this young person has ... I hope that he only acts out his anger in words and nothing more ...
Oh the irony. Just a few comments back, someone said that I might get beaten up later in life if I continue this attitude. Yet you are suggesting that I am violent? Kind of odd, don't you think?
quote:Originally posted by argonaut: "What's wrong with inherited wealth?"
The answer to your question is simple. I didn't inherit it.
I think that everyone who is wealthy, whether they inherited their wealth or if they won a lottery or earned it by working, should keep only enough to live frugally on (no buying any H2s) and surrender the remainder of their wealth for handing out to all of those less fortunate. Like me. I have never even ridden in a Hummer, but my ex-girlfriend is now dating a kid who has a Hummer... Where was I? Oh yeah, if all wealthy people do not voluntarily surrender their riches, then there should be a law that forces wealthy people to do so, or allows it to be confiscated by the Hungarian government. Have you seen my righteous pictures of the homeland? It is on my most excellent website. If you had done your research as you should have you would have seen them...
Ummmm, it is simply ridiculous that people who are wealthy can go out and buy fine things like Hummer H2s, live in nice homes and eat caviar 24/7/365. The greed displayed by wealthy people is terribly offensive to those who are not wealthy and the people starving to death on every street corner in America. Do wealthy people care? Apparently not. You don't see them driving their H2s down muddy roads in Africa, but that's because they handle so poorly offroad. Ask anyone who doesn't have an H2 and they will back me up! Now that I think of it, instead of just confiscating wealthy people's money, why don't all the non-wealthy people just kill all of the wealthy people, take all of their possessions and eat all their caviar? Did you know that there are many people who work that have NEVER eaten caviar? We do not have wealthy people in Hungary --- we have hungry people in Hungary. It is hard to be well-mannered when you are hungry. You get angry when you are hungry and from Hungary... I get angry when people call me a communist. Only ignorate people say that to me! Haven't they done their research and realized that I am a great Hungarian hero who took on and conquered the mighty Mozilla. And no, Mozilla is not an offroad 4-wheel drive course in Texas!
Now, I have a most brilliant and excellent idea. Although I have never worked myself, I think that only people who work should get food. Wait... I'm not sure if I mean that. But I am never wrong so I guess it is still a most excellent idea. Maybe. Maybe not. You see my lack of actual experience is a slight hindrance when it comes to solving all the world's problems. But, if you just follow my advice you will be very surprised to find out something. I'm just not sure what... I would share more of my wonderful plans and insights into how to fix your dispicable American system, but my Mommy just called me. Dinner's ready. But don't worry, I will be back and bore you with endless boasting and naive banter! Later, Dudes!
(The foregoing was not intended to be an imitation of any individual posting on this board. Any resemblance to an immature adolescent is purely accidental. It is, only meant to be FUNNY. If you didn't find it humorous, I am indeed very sorry.)
Ed
Posts:
256 |
From:
Sarasota, Florida, USA |
Registered: 04-18-03
if no one else says a thing he will go away...he nothing good to say about any one here.. so just go play with nyour toys and we will do the same....YOUR A KOOK
Posts:
27 |
From:
San Clemente Ca |
Registered: 04-11-03
quote:Originally posted by Frank Hewitt: The Hummer haters should move out of the country. Any fry cook at Mc D's who is over 30 or loser "earning" government assistance and thinks they are pick-on --just love to lash out at high-end vehicle owners. Luckily for them, if H2 owners didn't fit the tax backet that we do, there would be no financial aid, reduced-priced homes, and food stamps for them. They would be forced to work, instead of having time to bich and moan. My only comment: take your pathetic asses to college, or grow some 'nads, roll up your poor helpless tattered sleeves, and go to work. Anyone who makes any sort of living for themselves/their family notice how much dough is sucked from their income(taxes), which feeds the "less fortunate" (or do I mean less motivated?) would never dare complain about those who's determination and work ethic create a situation for themselves and can afford to drive whatever-the-hell they want??
The author of the Hummer haters thing is clearly a child who needed a good ass-whooping as a child-- but never got it-- and is only lacking in motivation to succeed; they are truely blessed with too much time on their hands to wimper and gripe.
get a frickin' life. But get a job first.
gasman
You seem to think the more money a person has shows that they are more motivated. I can name a few people who are motivated, but dont need money.
Here's a fun fact for the richest member of this world, Bill Gates. While he seems motivated, he actually illegally reused the operating QDOS that started Microsoft. Since his daddy had connections to IBM, IBM asked Billy and pals to come up with an operating system that could be run on small personal computers. Billy had one problem, he didnt have an operating system. So he bought one, for $50,000. Quite the good investment. However, the guy who sold it specifically had in the contract that he cannot relicense it to other companies, only Microsoft could use it. So here's the problem, Microsoft broke a contract and made billions as a result and now created a monopoly. All illegally.
If you don't believe the fun fact of the day, please research online.
Let me ask you something. If all of the hummer owners gave money to the less fortunate would it really solve the problem? I mean, would all the hungry working people live nice lives then or would it just delay their current situation a few years. And before you say that hummer owners represent a small part of the big problem let me reword the question. If all the wealthy people gave money to the less fortunate would everyone live a nice happy life?
Apparently you feel stingy wealthy people are the root cause of poor working people. You think it's out of their hands and they are not to blame. How much blame have you attributed to overpopulation and self control on their part?
You wish everyone could live a nice life and I respect you for that. However, your trying to solve a problem that is beyond your control and the manner in which you are doing it is ridiculous. In a way I feel sorry for you because your efforts will never feed all the hungry workers in the world. It's not that I don't care. I just don't think bashing rich people is the solution (or even worse- steriotyping hummer owners as rich careless individuals).
Oh well, You can attack hummer owners all you want. It's not going to benefit your cause any. If 95% of your hummer site is a joke ( you claim most statements are a joke on it), will the remaining 5% that is serious feed hungry workers? Wouldn't the promotion of birth control in these areas be more effective? But then again I guess practical solutions are less entertaining for you.
If you come up with a reasonable solution let me know, I'd be glad to help. In the mean time I'll keep hummin along. I wish you well with your efforts. Considering the effectiveness of your current strategy and campaign all the hungry workers out there should be rich in no time. That brings up one final question. If I gave a hungry worker a lot of money and he buys a hummer, does that make him a bad person? Oh well, I'll let you ponder that one. It's late, I won't keep you from saving the world of all its unfairness.
I've given you significant examples from real-world hands-on experience. You deny them all, retort with insults and miserably fail to substantiate any of your counter-points. There is no arguing with you...you've proven yourself completely and thoroughly unreasonable, unfounded and without intellectual merit.
Your grammar is poor, your spelling weak and your incessant need to insult purely belligerent. You have no answers, only criticism. You cast judgment without any regard for truth and have no foundation or understanding of what it is you speak. All I hear are big words and gross generalizations.
Your ignorance absolutely screams; it would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. This whole forum has pointed out your countless assumptions that are violently incorrect. I have neither the time nor interest to educate you.
I admire your energy and to some degree your dedication....but to sum it up; you are truth-functionally dysfunctional. And when you graduate from law school...just remember I told ya so!....it's your destiny.
Posts:
1599 |
From:
Los Angeles, Calif |
Registered: 11-13-02
The kid has every right to have his web page and write whatever he wants on it. Political views, porno, whatever. Legal stuff of course.
He never invited any of us to look at his page & read his view. He obviously has issues with quite a few things with the US political and economic system. Lets leave it at that. No one is going to change his mind, and he shouldn't try to change ours.
While I have much to say regarding his views, and what he could do to make himself a happier person, I won't start. Besides, there really are people who don't want to be helped.
So given all of that, I say we just drop it. While its been fun to debate, and obviously no one likes a whiner, he's only one person and its not worth going any further.
Lets get back to the H2 stuff! Agree?
- Dan
--------------------------------- SUT on order - 13 months to go! ---------------------------------
You make an interesting comment .... I surely never said that you are "violent" .... but since you brought it up, are you ? --- "violent" is a word that you used. I am concerned about the amount of "anger" being shown .... you seem to be too young for all of this stress in your life. I work with lots of young people in my business, and "anger", and especially in relation to "jealousy", seems to be prevelant today in their lives ... it is just sad that people so young are wasting the "great" years with all of this, rather than focusing the less stressful like having fun ....
quote:Originally posted by wavecrave: if no one else says a thing he will go away...he nothing good to say about any one here.. so just go play with nyour toys and we will do the same....YOUR A KOOK
Yes, call me a troll, kook, etc. I've been down that road a few times and let me tell you what it means. Troll and similar words are code words for "we dont like you." Since I didnt come here first and was misunderstand, I decline your invitation to leave.
quote:Originally posted by NCHummerman: You make an interesting comment .... I surely never said that you are "violent" .... but since you brought it up, are you ? --- "violent" is a word that you used. I am concerned about the amount of "anger" being shown .... you seem to be too young for all of this stress in your life. I work with lots of young people in my business, and "anger", and especially in relation to "jealousy", seems to be prevelant today in their lives ... it is just sad that people so young are wasting the "great" years with all of this, rather than focusing the less stressful like having fun ....
HUMMER Hater!!
Seriously though, there iks nothing wrong with inherited wealth. There is something wrong with arrogance and a sense of entitlement. Nobody is better than anybody else because of what they have and how they got it (unless it was illegal). It is one's actions that makes us who and what we are. Constantly criticising others makes you less of a person than somebody who is compassionate and respects everybody. That is my opinion.
SUT on order - 13 months to go!
